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Scots Pine Present!
http://weetrees.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13601		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Brahma [ 07 Jun 2015, 18:44 ]
Post subject:  Scots Pine Present!
Hi all. While I understand that pines aren't ideal for the inexperienced, my collection is growing! I was given this Scots Pine as a present. Apparently it's about 4 years old and is about 3 ft high. As you can see, the trunk is a reasonable thickness and there are a few branches in the top - the ones lower down look like they might have given up the ghost! There looks like there are a couple of buds that might grow out from the lower trunk too.

So my questions!! I would like to create a tree that's reminiscent of something on a moor - with most of the growth at the top in a kind of umbrella and I would like it about 3ft tall. It is a small pot at the moment and I was thinking of putting it in the bucket - do you think this would be ok? Or should I be going straight for a pond basket? Should I be removing those trunks on the sides now and just leaving those on the top and developing a "crown" from there?

Be pleased to hear your ideas.

Many thanks,

Andy
Author:  Brahma [ 07 Jun 2015, 18:46 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scots Pine Present!
Here's another couple ..
Author:  Andrew Campbell [ 07 Jun 2015, 19:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scots Pine Present!
For now I would lift it out the small pot and put it in the bucket without disturbing any roots. Then layer in the year when the new growth has hardened off I would cut back to a few pairs of needles. Just concentrate on back budding for now. A few years of that and then you should be able to style it into your literati style tree
Author:  NickB [ 07 Jun 2015, 19:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scots Pine Present!
I'm looking at the top and wondering why there are no (or very small) candles on the ends of the branches, when everywhere I look Scotties are extending vigorously right now....?

That small pot looks painful for the tree in my eyes. I always think planters are better wider than deeper as this is how trees grow in nature, the roots don't actually go down too far. I think you can get away with repotting it now as it hasn't put on any major growth. Arranging the roots radially like spokes-on-a-wheel is also a good idea, which I think will be possible without damage. I would also recommend using plenty of horticultural grit in your next mix, probably 1:1 grit and multi-purpose. This will aid the Pine as they don't like to be soggy.

I would not think about styling it until it has really gained some vigour in a year or so, and then you want to wait until late summer or autumn before working a Pine.
Author:  Brahma [ 07 Jun 2015, 20:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scots Pine Present!
Thanks Chaps! The tree was delivered in a box - internet purchase! It was a bit cramped - if you have a look at this next picture, you can see where the candles are folded over as there wasnt enough room. These top ones are about 1" - 2" long. The other branches do have some candles on but the biggest are definitely these on the top.

If I repot it, should I remove the soil from the roots so I can spread them out? I thought the idea was to leave the roots alone (or a max 30% intrusion?) Or will it be ok to try and spread what roots there are in this small pot?

Thanks again!

Andy
Author:  paulpash [ 07 Jun 2015, 21:24 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scots Pine Present!
Brahma wrote:
Thanks Chaps! The tree was delivered in a box - internet purchase! It was a bit cramped - if you have a look at this next picture, you can see where the candles are folded over as there wasnt enough room. These top ones are about 1" - 2" long. The other branches do have some candles on but the biggest are definitely these on the top.

If I repot it, should I remove the soil from the roots so I can spread them out? I thought the idea was to leave the roots alone (or a max 30% intrusion?) Or will it be ok to try and spread what roots there are in this small pot?

Thanks again!

Andy


Good god - did they seriously send it to you like this?

No don't touch the roots at all - just take it out it's pot and put it into a slightly bigger one in good draining soil. It's not repotting time now. Can I make a few suggestions?

Try to learn to buy good stock from the beginning. Jerry's guide to identifying what "good" stock is can be found here:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1823

Start with easier species first which can tolerate a little more variance in their treatment while you learn to water / feed / prune etc, eg

Elm
Cotoneaster
Lonicera
Pyracantha
Swamp Cypress

Never buy a plant unseen - it could turn out like this one with long, leggy branches that are really difficult to make anything out of. If it's a non bonsai outlet you're purchasing from they won't have done ANY prep work on the tree at all. Again, why not go to your local nursery and see if you can identify a potential tree to style? If you're in doubt take a pic of the potential ones you like, post it here and tell us WHY you chose these. Ask the garden centre to reserve them for you to pick up the next day. In this way it will train your eye to spot good stock, save you money and get you analysing your own decisions.
Author:  paulpash [ 07 Jun 2015, 21:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scots Pine Present!
Andrew Campbell wrote:
For now I would lift it out the small pot and put it in the bucket without disturbing any roots. Then layer in the year when the new growth has hardened off I would cut back to a few pairs of needles. Just concentrate on back budding for now. A few years of that and then you should be able to style it into your literati style tree


It will take 2 years for it to take (if it indeed does - Pines are one of the hardest species to layer). I really can't see any branches worthy of layering yet. It's basically been prematurely decandled by crap packing and this means a very weak tree. It will take another 2 seasons of good growth at least before this pine has the energy to backbud. It now needs lots of sun and fertilising well - and leaving alone!

Thanks Sphagnum and apologies to Andrew - it's amazing how one letter changed the complete sentence!
Author:  sphagnum force [ 07 Jun 2015, 23:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scots Pine Present!
I think that was a typo Paul, he meant later....

And if all else fails, literati. :grin:
Author:  Brahma [ 08 Jun 2015, 09:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scots Pine Present!
Oh dear - seems like I've been given a dud then :-( As it was given as a present, I don't think I will complain but I will try and find out where if was bought and write to them. Think I'll stick it in a big pot for now and just feed and water it and see what I've got two years down the line ....

Incidentally, will those bent candles on the top do anything now? if I take off those bent candles now, will that force any of the other buds lower down to "spark" into life?

Thanks again for your help and feedback.

Andy
Author:  NickB [ 08 Jun 2015, 12:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scots Pine Present!
No, please don't take off any buds or candles just now. You need to concentrate on growth, health and vigour. Allowing these candles to extends will mean needles will emerge, and these act as solar panels, allowing to tree to photosynthesise better and hence grow.
Wait until the early winter to remove some of the new growth and even then, it is vital to leave several pairs of the new needles on the ends of the branch. If the tree has regained some vigour then it is far more likely to produce back budding further down, which is what you need for building up branches.
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