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young scots pine
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Author:  Ranclark [ 16 Jun 2015, 20:44 ]
Post subject:  young scots pine

if i was to chop the top of the saplings candles off will this promote growth further down ie induce back budding?? or will it kill it?? it has needles on the main stem that are fairly new and 3 candles on the very top.

Ryan

Author:  Keith.W [ 16 Jun 2015, 21:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: young scots pine

Hi Ryan, do you have any photo's? They may help with any advice.

Author:  NickB [ 17 Jun 2015, 08:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: young scots pine

Much better to wait until the new needles have hardened off and left to grow until the winter before cutting the new growth back. And then you must leave some of the new needles on the ends.
This method allow the plant to gain some momentum and photosynthesize as much as possible during the summer months.
Cutting back over winter will mean back budding, and then next season you will have a greater number of shoots appearing.

Author:  paulpash [ 17 Jun 2015, 10:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: young scots pine

This is the method I use to get back budding on scots pine which is v similar to NickB.

1. The tree must be vigourous so good candle extension and foliage density is needed - a weak tree won't be inclined to backbud. If the area / tree isn't vigourous spend another year pumping it up with good sun & fert.

2. Wait til the needles harden off (they go sharper, darker and you can't tug them easily away from their sheaths) then cut straight across leaving 2 to 3 needle clusters on the current year's candle. The only difference with NickB is my timing - I candle cut in late July / early August. The roots are still v active at this time and they will power back budding ready for next year. Keep fertilizing strongly throughout.

NickB I'm interested why you cut so late in Winter as the tree has already set buds for next year?

Author:  NickB [ 17 Jun 2015, 12:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: young scots pine

Well, the advice is aimed more at the beginner, and I am assuming the tree is a small sapling with little in the way of branches and foliage. Im really guessing without a photo.

You have to be careful of pruning too early with Pines and I think inexperienced growers can be too enthusiastic about pruning and go ahead during the nice warm summer months. Trouble is that books tend to advise snapping candles as they extend and I, for one, was inclined to do that on young trees before I knew better. If pruned too early before the needles have set then it can cause problems with needles continuing to elongate in order to replace their fallen brothers, which is something you don't want.
Also, one must bear in mind that many old needles will turn yellow and fall in the late summer and one must be careful not to prune into these areas which could leave you with no foliage on the branch, and it could die off.
Another advantage with leaving the pruning until later is that the stem should thicken up more in the later part of the summer.
The roots are active at this time also, but I tend to think that leaving more foliage helps the roots grow which will help the tree for next season.

When I say winter, its usually more like November, rather than late winter, but I find the back budding to be satisfactory.

That my thinking anyway, and I am no expert, but its an interesting subject..

Author:  paulpash [ 17 Jun 2015, 13:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: young scots pine

NickB wrote:
Well, the advice is aimed more at the beginner, and I am assuming the tree is a small sapling with little in the way of branches and foliage. Im really guessing without a photo.

You have to be careful of pruning too early with Pines and I think inexperienced growers can be too enthusiastic about pruning and go ahead during the nice warm summer months. Trouble is that books tend to advise snapping candles as they extend and I, for one, was inclined to do that on young trees before I knew better. If pruned too early before the needles have set then it can cause problems with needles continuing to elongate in order to replace their fallen brothers, which is something you don't want.
Also, one must bear in mind that many old needles will turn yellow and fall in the late summer and one must be careful not to prune into these areas which could leave you with no foliage on the branch, and it could die off.
Another advantage with leaving the pruning until later is that the stem should thicken up more in the later part of the summer.
The roots are active at this time also, but I tend to think that leaving more foliage helps the roots grow which will help the tree for next season.

When I say winter, its usually more like November, rather than late winter, but I find the back budding to be satisfactory.

That my thinking anyway, and I am no expert, but its an interesting subject..


Thanks Nick. You're right when you say it's hard to give contextual advice in the absence of a photo. Looking back over my advice, would a beginner who never had a pine before know what 'vigourous growth' was? Pines are tough to grow as a beginner and even for the more seasoned.

Author:  Brahma [ 17 Jun 2015, 15:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: young scots pine

You are right with regards to what an enthusiastic beginner might do - I'm champing at the bit to start cutting into my Scots Pine sapling!!!! Thanks to Paul's advice I've held off and will give it a good summer of water, food and sun. Since potting it into a bigger pot, it's already growing on well.

Following Nick's comments here, I may prune it in November and try and encourage some back budding as it's very leggy. Thanks for the discussion gents ......

Author:  paulpash [ 17 Jun 2015, 16:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: young scots pine

Brahma wrote:
You are right with regards to what an enthusiastic beginner might do - I'm champing at the bit to start cutting into my Scots Pine sapling!!!! Thanks to Paul's advice I've held off and will give it a good summer of water, food and sun. Since potting it into a bigger pot, it's already growing on well.

Following Nick's comments here, I may prune it in November and try and encourage some back budding as it's very leggy. Thanks for the discussion gents ......


No worries but a pic helps a lot as there are a lot of 'ifs' and 'depends' with pines. Do you have a photobucket account ? Keeping a visual record of before and after helps you to evaluate what techniques and timing works for you. I often write notes on plant tags to remind me what I have done or what my goals are with specific trees (old age lol).

Author:  Bill [ 17 Jun 2015, 16:52 ]
Post subject:  Re: young scots pine

paulpash wrote:
Keeping a visual record of before and after helps you to evaluate what techniques and timing works for you

^^ this

Author:  Ranclark [ 18 Jun 2015, 17:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: young scots pine

Here are both trees, from what I have read in all the comments I'm thinking they are still too young yet ?? What do you all the think??

Ryan

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