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Time to learn about pines !
http://weetrees.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14660		 Page 18 of 19
Author:  sputnik [ 01 Aug 2017, 10:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Time to learn about pines !
I have been removing old needles from my pines and it leaves me with quite long areas of budless branch in places. If removing the needles including the sheath destroys any possibility of latent buds forming from that point why don't we just cut the needles and remove the old needle stubs later when we know where budding has occurred. It may not be an attractive option on trees in refinement but it surely couldn't hurt with developing pines.

Am I missing something?
Author:  Gary Jones [ 01 Aug 2017, 15:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Time to learn about pines !
I don't think so. A lot of people do that (cutting) for that reason although I'm not sure that removing the entire needle always removes the latent bud as i get back budding on naked branches.
Author:  daryl [ 01 Aug 2017, 15:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Time to learn about pines !
I was going to ask the same thing, Sputnik. My mugo looks green and healthy apart from the long older needles which are yellowing on the ends.
Author:  TomB [ 01 Aug 2017, 16:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Time to learn about pines !
For pines that are 'in development' and need to grow on, you may not want to be removing needles at all (unless there is a need to let light inside the tree). It's more a refinement stage activity.
With Mugos, remember that they will normally only bud in areas where there are needles, so be careful about removing needles on those.
Author:  daryl [ 01 Aug 2017, 18:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Time to learn about pines !
Thanks, Tom. I'm happy to leave them alone if that's what's best for the tree.
Author:  Drew [ 02 Aug 2017, 13:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Time to learn about pines !
sputnik wrote:
I have been removing old needles from my pines and it leaves me with quite long areas of budless branch in places. If removing the needles including the sheath destroys any possibility of latent buds forming from that point why don't we just cut the needles and remove the old needle stubs later when we know where budding has occurred. It may not be an attractive option on trees in refinement but it surely couldn't hurt with developing pines.

Am I missing something?


For Japanese Black Pines, Needle buds (the ones between the needle pair) are weak and unreliable (I've had meany that develop then die) or I've knock off accidentally :oops: The 'adventurous buds' that develop at the node (base of candles) are much more reliable and stronger. One reason you pull old needles is to allow more light into these nodes to stimulate the dormant buds.

By all means cut the needles just above the sheath for trees you are developing, you may or may not get needle buds. Its not ideal for JBP in refinement as your branches can become quite congested and may even shade the shorter nodes withing the branch structure.

I'll see if I can find some pictures of what I'm talking about
Author:  John M [ 02 Aug 2017, 17:50 ]
Post subject:  Re: Time to learn about pines !
I always cut, never pull, needles on my JWP. Cut them off just at the top of the sheath. I have never seen any harm occur to my JWP from this, and it back-buds very successfully. The only inconvenience is it takes hours but is worth it.

J.
Author:  paulpash [ 03 Aug 2017, 13:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: Time to learn about pines !
Brahma wrote:
paulpash wrote:
Brahma wrote:


A few pics against a neutral background would give me a better idea of the stage / health of your pine. There are a lot of variables at play here so I wouldn't like to give advice without seeing it.


It's been raining the last couple of days so I haven't been able to get some pictures. I've been and got some now but they're not great - hope you can make enough sense of them. There's a feed basket for scale - it's about 3 1/2ft - 4ft high. (I can't move the pot it's in at the moment because of my back so I've dropped some fleece behind it).

Image
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From the pics I'd say the best chance of a good tree lies in growing out that small lower branch moving to the right as your next trunk section, using the top as a sacrifice and removing it later. Tilt the trunk a little to the left and make sure your sacrifice does not shade out the keeper section below. You'll now have the beginnings of an informal upright with good movement down low and decent taper.

A branch is needed at the point where the small lower branch meets the trunk so prune accordingly to try and encourage budding here. To do that I'd initially try to prune the top to drive more energy into your keeper, equalising foliage mass between top and bottom over two seasons. It'll then be the usual balancing act between keeper and sacrifice. When you're developing this tree ignore the sacrifice section unless it is compromising progress of your keeper by:

1/ Making it weak through too much foliage mass above
2/ Casting shade

Remove the sacrifice when it's done its job, ie created good taper between 1st and 2nd trunk sections. Rinse and repeat this process for subsequent trunk sections, building branches in key areas such as the outside of bends and in decreasing lengths as it reaches the apex. Wire will be needed frequently to move branches and future trunk sections into key areas. With pines you must plan ahead and have goals where you'd like branches to form.
Author:  Sizzla [ 23 May 2018, 07:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Time to learn about pines !
Great thread full of info! Thanks to all the contributors. Still trying to wrap my head around it, I learn by doing rather than reading so it won't fully sink in til I start putting it into practice. Years away yet with my saplings though
Author:  Brendan [ 23 May 2018, 09:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Time to learn about pines !
Quote:
From the pics I'd say the best chance of a good tree lies in growing out that small lower branch moving to the right as your next trunk section, using the top as a sacrifice and removing it later.


Paul, would you say it improves the lower branch's growth rate and health if it is brought to a more vertical angle?
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