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Scots Pine Pruning
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Author:  Brahma [ 09 Oct 2016, 11:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scots Pine Pruning

paulpash wrote:
Brahma wrote:
Another question about this Scots pine of mine. I cut off some of the branches that I didn't want and reduced a couple of others back in August. I have had a look at the tree now and can see lots of buds swelling at the end of the branches. I am quite surprised how many buds have appeared on each branch! I guess this shows what can happen if you feed the tree well throughout the growing season. I've been referring back to Daryl's post about pines but just thought I'd clarify something before I do something wrong!

What do I do with these buds now? Do I leave the tree alone over the winter and prune out unwanted buds in the spring? Or should I be removing the unwanted buds now? Should I be reducing back to just two buds? Or should I leave more in order to build the foliage pads?

Many thanks,

Andy

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My usual regime is to remove them in Autumn at the same time as any needle work and then you know your work on pines for this season has finished. You can do that work now if you like.


The guidelines for bud selection that I use whether to keep or remove them are as follows:

Keep only 2 buds max per terminal. Look at the whorl of buds at the ends and rub off or tweezer pinch (depending on size) those buds that :

Emerge at the top or bottom & point straight up or down
Pointing across or will potentially interfere with an existing pad
Buds that appear in existing branch crotches that, if left alone, will result in a 3 forked branch.
Buds on the inside of bends are usually rubbed off.

Keep 2 lateral buds, emerging from the sides of the branch, ideally pointing slightly up. Remember these buds will turn into candles next season and then harden off into shoots and eventually be a woody branch so their angle needs to be pleasing - you are saving yourself some work by encouraging the tree to push growth in the right direction.

Why 2 buds? Firstly, it looks far more aesthetically pleasing, avoids congested branching and also the unsightly knuckle growth that will eventually lead to taper problems.

Finally, when you are doing bud selection and you want to use it to reign in the pine's natural apical dominance then look at the bud strength. Bigger, fatter buds have more energy and they will grow more vigorously than their smaller, frailer cousins. Using this information we try to keep the fattest buds in the lower third of the tree where it's normally the weakest, middle strength buds in the middle third and weakest buds in the top third / apex.

On many occasions it's a trade off or compromise. If there is a great bud placed in the top third that will make an excellent branch on the outside of a curve but it's massive then I'd keep it but I'd remember to pinch it back if the candle was way too strong. Same thing with top or bottom budding - you have to ask yourself 'if I let that bud grow into a candle can I wire it more laterally or will it look a complete chuff emerging from the bottom of a branch and bending up to fill in the pad?'

I hope this hasn't bored many weetree ers to death - please ask if you want further clarification. :Big Thumb:


Hi Paul

This is brilliant thank you - I think I'll bookmark this thread for future reference. I'm gonna go and see which buds I want to keep and get rid of the others now. Can I prune out the unwanted branches now too?

Thanks again,

Andy

Author:  paulpash [ 10 Oct 2016, 09:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scots Pine Pruning

Gary Jones wrote:
A variant to this would be to keep three buds - 2 as described as above and one dominant. The dominant one will keep the other two small the following spring and then be removed in the summer leaving the two smaller ones. I don't claim much expertise in this area but that's how my teacher does it - he says that's the way it's done in Japan (he is Japanese).


Thanks for adding this point Gary, it's the pine equivalent of the 'sacrifice growth' I discussed in the Field Maple thread. Just make sure you remember to come back later & prune it away before it becomes a problem. One observation with mugos is that often they will only set one bud at each branch tip - Mugos tend to have fatter tertiary branch structure because of this.

Author:  paulpash [ 10 Oct 2016, 09:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scots Pine Pruning

Brahma wrote:
paulpash wrote:
Brahma wrote:
Another question about this Scots pine of mine. I cut off some of the branches that I didn't want and reduced a couple of others back in August. I have had a look at the tree now and can see lots of buds swelling at the end of the branches. I am quite surprised how many buds have appeared on each branch! I guess this shows what can happen if you feed the tree well throughout the growing season. I've been referring back to Daryl's post about pines but just thought I'd clarify something before I do something wrong!

What do I do with these buds now? Do I leave the tree alone over the winter and prune out unwanted buds in the spring? Or should I be removing the unwanted buds now? Should I be reducing back to just two buds? Or should I leave more in order to build the foliage pads?

Many thanks,

Andy

Image
Image
Image



My usual regime is to remove them in Autumn at the same time as any needle work and then you know your work on pines for this season has finished. You can do that work now if you like.


The guidelines for bud selection that I use whether to keep or remove them are as follows:

Keep only 2 buds max per terminal. Look at the whorl of buds at the ends and rub off or tweezer pinch (depending on size) those buds that :

Emerge at the top or bottom & point straight up or down
Pointing across or will potentially interfere with an existing pad
Buds that appear in existing branch crotches that, if left alone, will result in a 3 forked branch.
Buds on the inside of bends are usually rubbed off.

Keep 2 lateral buds, emerging from the sides of the branch, ideally pointing slightly up. Remember these buds will turn into candles next season and then harden off into shoots and eventually be a woody branch so their angle needs to be pleasing - you are saving yourself some work by encouraging the tree to push growth in the right direction.

Why 2 buds? Firstly, it looks far more aesthetically pleasing, avoids congested branching and also the unsightly knuckle growth that will eventually lead to taper problems.

Finally, when you are doing bud selection and you want to use it to reign in the pine's natural apical dominance then look at the bud strength. Bigger, fatter buds have more energy and they will grow more vigorously than their smaller, frailer cousins. Using this information we try to keep the fattest buds in the lower third of the tree where it's normally the weakest, middle strength buds in the middle third and weakest buds in the top third / apex.

On many occasions it's a trade off or compromise. If there is a great bud placed in the top third that will make an excellent branch on the outside of a curve but it's massive then I'd keep it but I'd remember to pinch it back if the candle was way too strong. Same thing with top or bottom budding - you have to ask yourself 'if I let that bud grow into a candle can I wire it more laterally or will it look a complete chuff emerging from the bottom of a branch and bending up to fill in the pad?'

I hope this hasn't bored many weetree ers to death - please ask if you want further clarification. :Big Thumb:


Hi Paul

This is brilliant thank you - I think I'll bookmark this thread for future reference. I'm gonna go and see which buds I want to keep and get rid of the others now. Can I prune out the unwanted branches now too?

Thanks again,

Andy


Yes you can. There will probably be some resin seeping from the wound though as it's been fairly warm for October - keep some cut paste handy, mainly to stop it running down the bark.

Author:  Bill [ 10 Oct 2016, 16:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scots Pine Pruning

bud selection can also be done in spring. this is my preferred time, as anything can happen over winter; buds can get damaged so leaving them on until the storms are done is what i do. i have also found that bud selection in spring can encourage back budding in a strong scots.

as for the resin, i wouldn't waste the cut paste, a bit of tape will keep it just at the cut and can be removed after a couple of weeks, but not essential imo.

Author:  Brahma [ 11 Oct 2016, 09:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scots Pine Pruning

Thanks again for the feedback and comments gents. I'm assuming I can treat my Mugo pine in much the same way as it's also a 2 needle - 1 growth flush pine?

Author:  TomB [ 11 Oct 2016, 10:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scots Pine Pruning

Bill wrote:
as for the resin, i wouldn't waste the cut paste, a bit of tape will keep it just at the cut and can be removed after a couple of weeks, but not essential imo.

I agree - especially if you have mature flaky bark, cut paste will make a real mess of it that will be very difficult to clean off.

Author:  Bill [ 11 Oct 2016, 15:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scots Pine Pruning

Brahma wrote:
Thanks again for the feedback and comments gents. I'm assuming I can treat my Mugo pine in much the same way as it's also a 2 needle - 1 growth flush pine?

you can... more or less... like Paul said, they do tend to make one terminal bud and from what i have seen, late summer pruning causes different budding - scots will bud at the tips (as you have seen), mugo seems to bud further back closer to the base of that year's candle. energy is visibly redistributed in both, so weak buds on either will become stronger for next year and this redistribution may also get you some back budding.

the main difference growing/training them is strength and vigour as far as i can see, though i have a dwarf mugo so no surprises there. depending on what you have, you just may have to work it on a longer timescale compared to scots, which is also a lot more tolerant of rootwork and overall quicker to develop.

Author:  Brahma [ 11 Oct 2016, 15:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scots Pine Pruning

Brilliant, thanks Bill. I've last question on this subject for now - when is he best time to wire Scott's and Mugo's? Is it ok to do that now? Or is the a spring / summer job?

Author:  Bill [ 11 Oct 2016, 15:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scots Pine Pruning

if its, for instance, a rough wiring to pull branches more or less where you want them to go, you can do that whenever. if you are doing detail wiring where you need to strip needles to make clean tufts, this tends to be done from around mid-october onwards, depending where you are, though tbh i haven't got that far yet. if you want to do major manipulation of trunks, i have done this successfully in summer while its in active growth - talking about scots here, haven't done it with mugo.

Author:  Brahma [ 16 Oct 2016, 10:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Scots Pine Pruning

Great! Thanks again Bill and Paul for your help - gonna get my wire out and try and get some movement into my Mugo now!!

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